|
All I want to say is that it is misleading to say that the word “fright” signifies something which goes along with the ˇexperience of expressing of fright. |
|
There is here as again the queer case of that there is a difference between what we say, when we actually try to see what happens, & what we say when we think about it (giving over the rains to language). |
|
The ‘far away’ look, the dreamy voice seem to be only means for conveying the real inner feeling. |
|
“Therefore there must be something else” means nothing unless it expresses a resolution to exp use a certain mode of expression. |
|
Suppose you tried to separate the feeling which musik gives you from hearing musik. ड Ms-148,1v 2. |
|
Say & mean “long, long
ago—”, “lang
ist es her—”& now put instead of these words new ones with many more sylables & try if you can put the same meaning into the words. put instead of the copula a very long word say “Kalamazoo” |
|
<Puella>, Poeta “‘masculine’ & ‘feminine’ feeling” “ of ‘attached’ to a. |
|
Aren't there two (or<…> more) ways to any event I might describe? |
|
We say “making this gesture isn't all”. The first answer is: We are talking about the experience of making th[e|is] gesture. Secondly: it is true that different experiences can be described by the same gesture; but not in the sense that one is the pure one &the others consist …. |
|
Wie ist es wenn man einmal die besondere Klangfarbe eines Tones merkt hört ein andermal nur den Klang als solchen? ड Ms-148,2r 3. |
|
<<…>>
“Ich nenne diesen Eindruck ‘blau’”. |
|
Wie kann man denn die genaue Erfah- rung in ‘Poeta etc. beschreiben?’ |
|
The philosophical problem is: “What is it that puzzles me?” about in this matter?” |
|
To give names is to lable things; but how does one lable impressions. |
) 148001 das auge
& der wald Das männliche a & das weibliche a. |
|
Es läßt sich über die besondere bestimmte Erfah- rung einiges sagen & außerdem scheint es etwas, & zwar das wesentlich- ste, zu geben was sich nicht beschreiben läßt. |
|
Man sagt hier, daß ein bestimmter Eindruck benannt wird. Und darin liegt etwas seltsames & problemati- sches. Denn es ist als wäre der Eindruck ड Ms-148,2v 4
etwas zu äkterisches um ihn zubenennen. (Den Reichtum einer Frau heiraten.) |
|
Du sagst Du hast einem ungreifbaren Eindruck. ˇIch bezweifle nicht, was Du sagst Aber ich frage ob Du damit etwas gesagt hast. D.h. wozu hast Du diese Worte geäußert, in welchem Spiel. |
|
It is as though, if although you can't tell me exactly what happens inside you, you can nevertheless tell me something general about it. By saying e.g. that you are having an impression which can't be further described. |
|
As it were: There is something further about it, only you can't say it; you can only make the general statement. It is this idea form of expression which plays hell with us. |
)
|
It “There is not only the gesture but a particular feeling which I can't describe”: instead of that you might ha[b|v]e said: “I am trying to point out a feeling to you” which this would be a grammatical remark showing how my information is meant to be used. This is almost similar as though I said “This I call ‘A’ & I am pointing out a colour) to you not a shape” |
|
How can we point to the colour & not to the shape? Or to the feeling of toothache & not to the tooth etc.? |
|
What does one call “describing a feeling to someone”? |
|
“Never mind the shape,— look at the colour!” |
|
“Was there a feeling of pastness when you said you remembered …?” ‘I know of none’. |
|
How does one point to a number, draw attention to a number, mean a number? |
|
How do I call a taste “lemontaste”? ड Ms-148,3v 6
Is it by having that taste & sayingthe words: “I call the taste …”? |
|
And can I give a name to any one tasteexperience as without giving the tastet a common langu- age?— “I give my feeling a name, nobody else can know what the name means.” |
|
A [¿¿|sc]lave has to remind me of something & isn't to know what he reminds me of. |
|
I note down a word ˇin my diary which serves to bring back a taste. ) 148003
ड Ms-148,4r |
) 148004
) 148005
) k148001
) 148006
ड Ms-148,4v |
) 148007
ड Ms-148,5r 7 |
|
“I use the name for the impression
¿directaly¿ & not in such a way that anyone else can under- stand it.” |
|
Buying something from oneself. Going through the operations of buying. |
|
My right hand selling to my left hand. |
|
Gefühls-(Gedanken)übertragung. |
|
Eine gute art eine Farbe zu benennen wäre, in einer entsprechend gefärbten Tinte den Namen schreiben. |
|
“I name the feeling”— I dont quite know how you do this, what use you are making of the word name |
|
“I'm giving the feeling, which I have I'm having just now a name”.— I don't quite know what you are doing. |
|
One might say: “What is the use of talking of our feeling at all. Let ड Ms-148,5v 8 us devise a language which really
onlysays what can be understood” Thus I am not to say “I have a feeling of pastness”: But |
|
“This pain I call ‘toothache’ & I can never make him understand what it means”. |
|
We are under the impression that we can point to the pain, as it were unseen by the other person, & name it. |
|
For what does it mean that this pain feeling is the meaning of this name? |
|
Or, that the pain is the barer of the name? It is the substantive ‘pain’ which <…> puzzles us. This substantive seems to produce an ilusion. What would things look like if we expressed pains by moaning & holding the painful spot? Or that we utter the word pain pointing to a spot. “But that the point is that we should ड Ms-148,6r 9 say ‘pain’ when there
really is<…> pain.”
But how am I to know if there really is pain? if what I feel really is pain? Or, if I really have a feeling?--- |
|
Es ist sehr nützlich zu bedenken: Wie würde ich in einer Gebärdensprache ausdrücken: “ich hatte keine Schmerzen, aber stellte mich, als ob ich welche hatte”? |
) 148008
“Shurely it isn't enough that he moans;I must be able to describe the state when he moans & hasn't got pains” |
|
“He has pains, says he has pains & saying ‘pains’ he means his pains.” How does he mean his pains by the word ‘pain’ or ‘toothache’? |
|
“He sais ‘I see green’ & means the colour he sees.”— If asked afterwards what did you mean by ‘green’ he might answer ‘I meant the colour’, pointing to it. ड Ms-148,6v 10 |
|
“In my own [k|c]ase I know that when I say ‘I have pain’ this utterance is accompanied by something;— but it is also accompanied by something in another man?” In as much as his utterance needn't be accompanied by my pain. I may say that it isn't accompanied by anything. |
|
“I know what I mean by ‘toothache’ but the other person can't know it.” |
|
Als Negation: “The deuce he is….” |
|
Die Philosophie eines Stammes der als Negation nur den Ausdruck<…> benützt kennt: “I'll be damned if…”. |
|
¿On a beau dire….¿ |
|
“Man kann nie einen ˇganzen Körper sehen sondern nur ˇimmer einen Teil seiner Ober- fläche.” ड Ms-148,7r |
) k148002
ड Ms-148,7v 1. |
|
<
They have the same Nr. if to one 1
there always corresponds one. If for one of these there is always one of the others. > ) 148009
“Two rods are equally long if for any inch of the one there is an inch of the other”. ) 148010
“There are these couples, whether I write them down or not.” ) 148011
ड Ms-148,8r 2. |
|
“Give the impression a name!”
that seems to have sense. “It seems to me that I can mean the impression” It seems to me that I can will the table to appoach. “Can one push air?” ड Ms-148,8v 3. |
) k148003
|
|
For each member of α there is a member
of β. The [K|c]lasses α & β fall into couples. This similar with a prop of say physics, e.g. “they join & form couples when they are brought together”. But this is just not what is meant. We mean something that follows from what there exists in these [k|c]lasses. And we have an image of them something like this ) 148012
If ˇnow we say for this there is this, for this there is this etc., this sounds as if we said something about the dots; like “this belongs to this etc.” whereas we ड Ms-148,9r 4 are saying words &
gestures to put theminto couples. And this of is a way of finding whether they have the same Nr. And now we must say that there are many different phenomena of of equality of Nr. or of having a certain Nr. Just as having a length & having equal lengths. Let me remin[g|d] you of the problem “are these two rods now of the same length.” Take the definition you have to give of this expression when the rods have to be measured & on the other hand when you use this difference. “These bodies have the same weight” etc. Now consider: “There are as many granes of sand in this heap as in the other”. How do we know this? (This is no psychological question.) Now suppose we said we test it by connecting the classes one-one; ¿then¿ the question is: how shall we know that we have connected them? For there are several utterly different criteria. But further what shall we say in the cases where no such connection is possi- ble? <…> What about saying then that the members of the two similar classes still fall into couples?? Is this now an explanation? For when we give it we thought of it as reducing the statement ड Ms-148,9v 5 of numeric equality to simpler terms.The falling into couples was an image which in some cases was most natural namely in those in which there was the possibility of joining terms into couples. But in fact it wasnt at all the only aspect of numeric equality. The term “having the same [n|N]r” in fact suggests a different aspect. I mean this ) 148013
Having the same Nr. can be interpreted as having the same one of these schemata. Of course this aspect too is only natural in a very limited [Nr.|number] of cases. <Aspect of stars>. The explanation, that two classes have the same Nr. if they fall into couples, is really taken from the a case like ) 148014
) 148015
) 148016
as many points than the ड Ms-148,10r 6.
pentagon”
Demonstration
Timelessness of the demonstrated prop: ) 148017
blue & red = purple ड Ms-148,10v 7 |
|
¿We said¿ that what we described
as “numeral equality”, “being 1-1 correlated”, “having the number n” were widely differing phenomena. That therefore it was an ilusion to think that to say “the classes fall in pairs” is, generally speaking an analysis of what we call numeric equality in simpler terms. We can if we like put “being numerically equal” = “falling into pairs” but the use of the one expression just as of the other has got to be explained in the particular case. This we only forgett. Thinking about a very special class of examples. ) 148018
ha[b|v]e the right existential structure they do fall into cou[l|p]les & this is demonstrated. The question how we find out in the special case that they do have the right s[p|t]ructures is neglected. One could also say that a length a was twice another one b if the two a superimposed gave b. Application for wavelengths. This brings me to the topic of ड Ms-148,11r 8 demonstration.
1) ) 148019
inner vert 5. Compare with “the Hand has 5 Fingers.” Timelessness. The save hold of “The number of outer vert. = Nr of inner vert” Question which is answered by this prop timeless. ˇApparent Generality of demonstr. The copula has no tenses. <…> idea is that the idea of a penta- gram is bound up with a cardinal Nr. Now, we could make all sorts of connections. ) 148020
) 148021
“It is the essence of these figures to be capable of being devided connected in this way”. ड Ms-148,11v 9 |
|
Pythagoras Is the result of the process taken as a standard or not. ) 148022
nature give the rectangle”. ) m148001
This aspect might never have struck you. ) m148002
ड Ms-148,12r 10
) 148023
) 148024
) 148025 a
+ (<…>) = (<…>+ b) +ca+(b+1) = (a+b) +1 a + (b+2) = (a+b)+2 It seems you can't get out. You must adopt a+(b+c) = (a+b)+c if you adopt a+(b+1) = (a+b) +1 |
|
But need we really say that a+(b+2) = (a+b)+2 follows from a+(b+1) = (a+b)+1? |
|
The reasoning is: a+(b+2) = a+(b+(1+1)) = a+ ((b+1) +1) = = (a+ (b+1)) +1 = ((a+b) +1) +1 = (a+b) + (1+1) 5+(6+1) = (5+6) +1 5+(6+2) = |
|
I show you a curve drawn in a penta- gon which you had never thought of & I say: I am shoving you that ड Ms-148,12v 11. this curve can be
drawn,— or: that thereis such a curve in the pentagon. That there are two twos in four. |
|
Is there really no way out of saying, say, that a triangle which has the 3 equal sides has also three equal angles. |
|
Does ) 148026 consist of
) 148027 &
) 148028?It depends what kind of dispute it is. You could say it con- sisted of ) 148029 &
) 148030.
Is the <…> disputeone about facts or mode of description? ) 148031
) k148004
) k148005
) k148006
ड Ms-148,13r 12
) m148000 ) m148003
) m148004
show that a+b fits but it shows that it looks like it does ) m148005
) m148006
“What kind of figure do youget if you draw the diago- nals in a Pentagon?” ˇWhat sort of body do you get if you ---. What kind of Nr do you get if you draw 3s in ¿9¿. What kind of coulour do you get if you [wet|mix] red with yellow? ) 148032
fits into a pentagon”. Is this an experimental result? ड Ms-148,13v 13. |
|
I am now talking ˇalways of a particular kind of demonstration; what one might call an visual demonstration. |
|
In what sense could I say that I didnt know that the pentagram fitted the pentagon? Could I have imagined the opposite? Suppose I had imagined the opposite in some sense then in the same sense I could still hold the opposite after the demonstration. |
|
We are talking of the star of which I did not know whether it fitted the pentagon or not ) 148033 ) 148034 Then I try & find that they fit. This is just like making an experiment. ड Ms-148,14r 14 |
|
“I never knew that I could
see the Pentagon & its diagonals in this aspect.” ) 148035
“Oh, that's how it fits!” ) 148036 ड Ms-148,14v 15 |
) 148037“I dont know whether the dra penta- gram fits the pentagon. If so the diagonals of a pentagon must give a pentagram. Let's try it.” Is to see<…> the figure ) 148038
see side by side the figures ) 148039?
) 148040But doesn't it teach us something? “It never struck me” |
|
It seems we are learning by experience a timeless truth about the shape of a Pentagon & of a Pentagram. |
|
“I never knew that one could look at it ड Ms-148,15r 16 that way.
I had never seen the pentagramin the pentagon.” |
|
It is a new experience to me. But is it the experience teaching me that the pentagram fits the pentagon? |
|
This We feel that the here are two ˇvisual indivi- dualities which we see in the third [¿indiv¿|picture] we see p combined & that we see that they are capable of this particular combi- nation. ) 148041The fact is that the combination (not meaning Relation but Complex) strongly strikes us. |
|
“The visual image [¿P¿|p] fits the visual image P.” The importance of this prop lies in this that it seems a prop. of experience & that on the other hand it also is used as a prop. of geometry i.e. of grammar. |
|
What is the use of the prop. that p fits P? ड Ms-148,15v 17
“If you draw the diagonals in P youget p.” ) 148042
“If you do this & this & this &
thisyou get Napoleon.” |
|
Problem: “Draw that Star which will fit the Pentagon.” This is a mathe- matical problem. |
|
“What do the diagonals of a P look like?” |
|
We look at a puzzle picture & find a man in the foliage of a tree. Our visual impression changes. But can't mustn't we say that the new experi- ence would have been impossible if the old one hadn't been what it was? Such that we seem bound to say the new exp. was already preformed in the old one. Or that I found something new which was already in the essence of the first picture. |
|
We seem to have demonstrated an internal property of the old picture. ड Ms-148,16r 18 |
) m148007
<Demonstrating that this is contained>in this “It is in the nature of this to contain this .” |
) m148008 if you
do this & this etc you get
55
) 148043 |
|
Die mathematische Frage.
Could the Pythag. be assumed instead of being deduced? |
)
|
“It never struck me that this ) m148009
) m148010
Something timeless seems to have struck us: How can the identity of these entities strike us ) 148045
It never struck me that 5 consisted of 3 + 2 |
|
To see five figures as ) m148011
F. + 2 F.
.
It 5is = 2 + 3 it can't mean anything to see 5 a 2 + 3 ) 148046 ) 148047 You could devid 5 into 2 + 3 but not into 3 + ¿3¿ as you could 6 ) 148048
Obstacle
ड Ms-148,17r 20
) 148049 |
|
The whole question is really: “can it strike you what a thing is?” ) 148050 It seems you can find out some- thing about the nature of a thing by experience. About its internal nature. It is Thus e.g. a similarity can strike you; the fact that a complex contains a constituent; even ड Ms-148,17v 21 identity of shape.
two tunes fitting |
|
“One can see immediately that 4 consists of 2 + 2”. This is nonsense if 4 = 2 + 2 |
) 148051) 148052
) 148053
) 148054
|
|
~p ~ [~p ∙ ~(~r ∙ ~s)] ∙ ~[~(~t ∙ ¿~¿~s ∙~t)) ∙ ~p] |
|
What do I do when I draw your atten- tion to a fact about, say, this for- mula? It seems I make you see something about its essence. You get a new experience; but this experience , it seems, teaches you something about the essence the internal nature of the formula. It seems to teach you a mathematical (<or> logical) truth & this does not seem to be a rule of grammar but a truth about the ड Ms-148,18r 22
nature of things. |
|
If I made an experiment with a certain figure we can ˇ<…> imagine this or that result. But if I draw your attention to a feature |
|
It consists of … appears to have 1) a grammatical meaning 2) a physical meaning & 3) a meaning lying between these two. |
|
We seem to learn something about the very sensedatum. |
|
Tribe describ describing ) 148055 as
) 148056or ) 148057
|
|
A certain symbolism will easily go with a certain aspect of looking at a thing. |
|
“They regard the square as a double right angle.” |
|
“ ) 148058 consists of
) 148059
& ) 148060”“ ) 148061 consists of
) 148062
& ) 148063”In one case you say that it ड Ms-148,18v 23 consists if it is
devided.
In theother case you ˇseem to say that the undevided ¿object¿ consists (time- lessly) if you have seen a similar object devided. Or you say that the object is devided if you have devided its picture. |
|
I dispose about 5 soldiers I imagine them & say: I'll sent ||| to this place || to that. Have I thereby devided them into 2 + 3 Soldiers & seen that it's possible. What if I had imagined this picture ) 148064
& saidI'll send ||| to this place & ||| to that? |
|
What happens if our attention is drawn to something ) 113ML12
) K148007
|
|
One couldn't call 0'3∙ a shorthand for 0'333…. Except insofar as 0'33… is also a shorthand for 0'333…. |
|
“Don't try to find a 4 in the developement it's hopeless!”— “Don't multiply 25 × 25 ड Ms-148,19r 24 again & again in the hope to find
600; it'shopeless!” What's it like to try to find a 4 in the developement of 1 : 3? And what is it like to find a 4. |
|
What is the ˇimportance & meaning of the question: “What is it like?” or “What is the verification?” |
|
Kein Kalkül ist im “Widerspruch mit der Logik” d.h. mit gewissen Regeln die über allen andern stehen. Die Annahme einer obersten Logik ist es, die die ¿Philosophen¿ hier irreführt. |
|
What we should call finding a 4 in 1/3 obviously depends upon the operations in this case. |
|
What does it mean to imagine getting a result from a cal[k|c]ulation? How far is this imagination to go? |
|
“There isn't a 4 in the first million places”— “You've got a quick way of calculating that!” |
|
Imagine this operation: A decimal ड Ms-148,19v 25 fraction constructed by multiplyingagain & again 25 × 25 : 0'625625625… Look for an 8 in it!” “You know that you will never find an 8” means: “Don't try to devide 2476 without ¿remainder¿ by 3 it's hopeless”. |
|
In which case is it hopeless to find a particular result by a calculation? |
|
Calculating is the process of imagining a calculation. |
|
“I can hope to find an 8 in the Product 284×379.” |
|
To say “it's hopeless to find a certain result really means: our calculation has already shown it to be wrong.* |
|
Or: we have a calculation of which we make have that opposite result. |
|
What is the 65th 56th place of 1 : 7? You can now say ˇit seems what the 1010 place ‘will’ be. ड Ms-148,20r 26 |
|
How can one calculation anticipate the result of another? |
|
* Or: “Our cal[k|c]ulusation has already decided against it. |
|
What does it mean: to prophecy what one will correctly find. |
) 148065
29 × 34 = 34
× 293102 × 2331 2331 × 3102 |
|
Das Bild “Alle” angewandt auf die Unendlichkeit. |
|
To show mathematically that a 4 can be found is to describe what it is like to find a 4. And to find a 4 is here a process in space and time. |
|
“Find, as the result of a calculation ”& “Find, otherwise” |
|
In 1 : 7 gibt es ein endliches Problem & ein unendliches. ड Ms-148,20v 27 |
) m148012
Two processes of calculation lead to the same result. |
|
“What if they at some stage did not lead to the same result”—. “That is impossible, we couldn't imagine their not leading to the tame result.” But then the proof of their leading to the same result showed us what it was like to lead to the same result. |
) m148013 ड Ms-148,21r 28 |
) m148014 |
|
The difficulty consists in this that it here seems impossible to imagine any- thing but what really is the case: And that of course means nothing! We don't seem to be able to imagine finding a 4, because there is a three there. But then how are we capable of imagining to find a 3 as there is a 3 there? |
|
If I say I can't imagine a 4 ड Ms-148,21v 29 to result it means that thecalculation shows me what it means to imagine a 3 to result & gives no sense to the prop. “I imagine a 4 to result” |
|
x² + ax + b =0 “Solve this equation ˇalgebraically!” |
|
“Do something that has an analogy to ….” But we can't be sure that we shall not in the end give up the idea of something being analogous to …. |
|
The existens of a something we call the ‘solution’ seems to show clearly, that there was a clear & definite problem. |
|
Supose we said that a solution is a solution only insofar as it could have been described before it was found. |
|
“Solve x² + 2ab + b² = 0” “Solve x² + 4x + 5 = 0” ड Ms-148,22r 30 |
|
“We can't imagine that 1:7
should
not repeat itself after the dividend has [k|c]ome back.” ) k148007
) m148015 |
|
We have ¿two ways¿ of calculating
the 1010th place & we can't imagine that they lead to different results. |
|
Ist es eine [b|B]estätigung hierfür wenn die beiden ¿Bemerkungen¿ in einem bestimmten Fall übereinstimmen? |
|
Is it different to say “they lead to the same [R|r]esult” & “they must lead to the same result”? |
|
Does it mean anything to “prophecy” the result of a calculation? |
|
We say we can't imagine that the two
processes should not lead to the sa the same result. What does it mean, we can't imagine it? ड Ms-148,22v 31 |
) 148066 |
|
Must we recognise Periodicity as
a proof that there will be no 6 in the development of 1:7? |
|
“How does it happen that 3×4 is 4×3?” |
|
“An dieser Stelle muß eine Primzahl kommen”— “An dieser Stelle kommt steht eine Primzahl”. |
|
‘Gibt es einen Zufall in der Mathematik?’ |
|
How does the returning to the dividend show me the periodicity of the quotient. |
|
We seem in one kind of thought to make jumps in the other to fill in step by step. And the latter process seems to justify the former. ड Ms-148,23r 32
“You see it just leads to the sameresult!” ) 148067 |
|
Denke an den Fall wenn man mehrere Züge in einem Spiel zusammenzieht & etwa im Schach gar nicht erst mit der ersten Position anfängt. |
) 148068
) k148008
“Die Form ‘1 2 3 4 5’ paßt auf die Form ) 148069”
Was für ein Faktum ist das, daß die Reihen- folge das Resultat nicht ändert. The process we are going through just does to lead to the same result;— but so far as it “leads to the same result we could imagine it to lead to a different ड Ms-148,23v 33 result.
And so far as we couldntimagine it to lead to a different result it doesnt lead to any result but shows what it's like to lead to the same result. I.e.: If we lost at the Forms ) 148070 & 12345as
equivalentthere ceases to be a question of whether the two processes lead to the same or to different results & the apparent experi- ment serves only to show what sort of fact we take as the standard of our expression. |
)
|
“How can you impose two rules on your arithmetik unless you know that they must lead to the same result?” You wish to say: “These rules by there very nature, lead to the same result.” And you would therefore have recognised something about the very nature of them. |
|
Now it is time that you can make a man look into the case working of these rules; that is, you can prove something about them. |
|
“You go through this way of thinking & then you go through another way of thinking which independently leads to the same result.” |
|
123456 123456 2 2 2 |
|
After you have seen that 1000 : 3 must lead to 333 is it a confirmation to calculate it & see what it does? Hadn't you calcula- ted it by “seeing that it was 333”? And what does it mean that one calculation confirms the result of the other? ड Ms-148,24v 35
If you first see that the two calc. must lead to the same result is it a confirmation to find that they do? ) 148071 |
|
“If this goes on this way & that goes on that way they must meet there!” |
|
25 25 25 25 --- 16 times 16 16 16 16 25 times they must meet at the end. “Are you surprised that they meet? Didn't you know that they had to meet?” |
|
“I wasn't surprised I always followed the 25s while going on with the 16s.” ड Ms-148,25r 36 |
) 148072
Must a series of dots givethe same number counted this → way & that ←? (There are two cases.) |
|
Can we I try whether the result is the same?— It seams, yes. ) 148073“Can you imagine the calculation 16×34 to lead to something else …?”— “Can you imagine these two calculations leading to different results?” |
|
1:7=--- “The division must give the same result as it gave the <…> be- fore.” ) m148016
Can we try whetherit does? |
|
Can we imagine the same calculation to lead twice the second time to a different result? |
|
The question is really whether there can be a “must” in a prop. about the ड Ms-148,25v 37
nature of things. |
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“In the sense in which they ‘must’ lead, they don't lead we can't say they do lead. |
) m148017
“Wenn die Überlegung richtig ist”, somuß diese Rechnung zu demsel- ben Resultat führen. |
) k148010
zu selben Resul- tat. |
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Let's imagine that we possessed
only the second criterion for determining divisibility! ) 148074 But there seems tobe the difference be- tween “they lead” & “they must lead”. d a b b b c = d c b a b ) 148075ड Ms-148,26r 38 |
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Wir nehmen ein falsches Verhältnis von Prozess & Resultat an. Denn es heißt nicht daß ein ˇgewisser Pro- zess zu einem ˇbestimmten Resultat führen muß. |
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Denn ein Prozess muß nur dazu führen daß er geschehen ist. |
) 148076
We sometimes substitute for the des- cription of a result the description of a result. |
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Ich kann mir eine Blume auf gewisse Weise gewachs<…>en denken. Und das Wachstum ist dann ein Prozess dessen Ende der Zustand der Blume ist. |
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In welchem Sinne ist es möglich nicht zu wissen wohin ein mathematischer Vorgang führt. Man könnte antworten es ist möglich nicht zu wissen, wohin er führen wird aber nicht, nicht zu wissen wohin er führt. In one sense you can't know the process without knowing the result, as th[is|e] result is the end of the process. In ड Ms-148,26v 39 the other you may know a process
& notknow the result. |
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In mathematics we ¿object¿ to say these processes have the end in com |
) 148077
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A calculation leads to a result ˇmathematically appart from the fact whether I have actually performed it. |
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‘If I say this calculation must lead to this result it has al already lead to it.’ |
) m148018“I knew it beforehand what it must ड Ms-148,27r 40 lead to.” |
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If I say ‘this calculation must lead to the same result’ by “this calculation I am referring to ˇwhatever I call a method of calculating. |
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Does calculating that there —isn't a six … confirm the result that there couldn't be? |
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“You already see what happens, it must always go on like this.” Now suppose you actually went on would this confirm what you saw before? |
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A man says, “I see that the two calculations ˇso far agree but I don't know why they should go on agreeing”. In Shall we say that he doesn't see a truth which the other sees?— He tries always again & again. We ask him: “But don't you see that you must get to the same result again? Should we say that he must make go the long way of experience, where we go the shorter one of seeing? ड Ms-148,27v 41 |
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“If the multiplication lead to this result once, it must lead to it the same result again.” |
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“What is the criterium of periodicity?” Here we are inclined to think that we have a criterion the reappearance of the remainder & the actual periodi- city i.e., the repetition ad inf of the period. |
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The infinite & the huge. Absolute idea of large & small. |
) k148011“I never looked at it this way, before” ड Ms-148,28r 42 |
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“These people don't see a simple
truth …. |
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They are resolved to write this: ) k148012 insteadof ) k148013
|
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But not “because it had to lead
thru to the same result”. |
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It is a remarkable fact that people almost always agree how to count. |
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Suppose I said this is the 100th house of this street, although there before are no only 5 houses built. ड Ms-148,28v 43 |
) k148014• • • Am
I to be guided by this•or by this•? And how do I know that they will guide me to the same result? We have a general kind of ideas of how it goes on; but can't this after all be contradicted by the actual detailed calcula- tion? Isn't there a danger of it going wrong after all? What is the truth which we see (& which is ‘obvious’)? That ) k148015•This• shows us that this• was justified” ) k148016
we leave behind us these justifications. At first imagination accompanies us a (certain) stretch & then even we are left alone. |
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If there are 777 in the first 100
places there are 777 in the infinite developement. ड Ms-148,29r 44 |
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“I have found 777 somewhere in
π” This leaves ) 148078
|
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“The calculation guides you to
the result.” ) 148079
two rules must always lead you to the same result.” |
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The process of calculation can may
be regarded as a process where there is no compulsion or being guided & on the other hand, as a process where to we move under some strict guidance. |
) 148080
ड Ms-148,29v 45 |
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“If I follow this chain of steps it's bound to lead me there.” |
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““The question are there 777 in π is allright because surely there either are 777 in π or there arent”. Queer! use of p ⌵ ~p. Images characteristic for this statement. It realy means: “The question is allright because there is a method of verifying it althought we can't use it.” |
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“The third place of π is 4 whether I know it or not.” |
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“What if we had proved it to be selfcontradictory that there should be no 777 ˇin π, mustn't we then say that there are 777?” |
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Our prose expressions in mathematics are highly metaphorical. |
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“Every algebraic equ. has a root”. Is this to be called a proposition? ड Ms-148,30r 46
The question corresponding to this prop. as answer is vague. But once the prop. this piece of mathematics has been done we are inclined to call it the proof that our question had to be answered is the positive. But, as one might say, there was much less in question than there is now in the answer.— Compare this with: “[i|I]s 25×25 = 600?” |
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Props. which seem only to have sense if their truth or falsehood is known. |
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What kind of prop. will the prop. be that there can't (or must) be 777 in π. |
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Will it be possible e.g. to calculate whether any given prop. of digits occurs or how often it does. |
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Relation between proof showing that 777 must be between n & m & actual Proof that they are at the vth place (v bein between n & m). ड Ms-148,30v 47 |
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Negation of a mathematical prop. of fault in a calculation. |
) 148081
¿<…>x ∙ cos x = sin x¿ “Are there an infinite Nr of 777 in π?” “There arent”. |
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“Question” corresponds to “investiga- tion”. |
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Heptagon must have been an Investigation. |
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“Is 5. a cardinal Nr?” |
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There is a contradiction between the normal use of the word “proposition” “question. ड Ms-148,31r 11 |
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“Wouldn't one like to know with
real certainty whether the other had has pains?” |
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Feeling of pastness. “The experiences bound up with the gesture etc. aren't the experience of pastness, for they could be there without the feeling of past- ness”.— “But, on the other hand, would it be that experience of pastness without those experiences bound up with the gesture?— [w|W]hy should we say that the characteristic //essential// part is the part outside those experiences? Isn't the experience at least partially described if I have described the gestures etc? |
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Auch so: Die Worte “lang ist es her—” rufen in mir manchmal ein bestimmtes Gefühl wach[,|.] [m|M]anchmal nicht. Aber wenn sie es wachrufen so sind sie, ihr <…> Teil der charakteristischen Erfahrung |
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Sprechen mit Andern & mit mir selbst: “Wenn ich eine gewisse Erfahrung habe, gebe ich ˇ(nur) das Zeichen +….” ड Ms-148,31v 12. |
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When one sais “I talk to myself” one ˇgenerally means just that one speaks & is the only person listening. |
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If I look at something red [to|&] say &, to myself, this is red, am I giving myself an information? Am I communicating a personal experience to myself. Some philosophising people might be in- clined to say that this is the only real case of communication of personal experience because only I know what I really mean by ‘red’. |
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Remember that in which special cases only it has sense to inform a<n> other per- son that the colour he sees now is red<…>. |
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One doesn't say to oneself “[t|T]his is a chair.— Oh really?” |
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Wie kann ich denn einer Erfahrung ([z.B.|etwa] einem Schmerz) einen Namen geben? Ist es nicht als wollte ich ihm, etwa, einen Hut aufsetzen? |
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Nehmen wir an man sagte: “Man kann ड Ms-148,32r 13 ihm nur indirekt einen Hut
aufsetzen” so würdeich fragen: Glaubst Du daß man je auf die Idee gekommen wäre davon zu reden wenn man nicht daran gedacht hätte daß man dem Menschen der Schmerzen hat einen Hut aufsetzen kann? Zu sagen man könne dem Schmerz nur indirekt einen Hut aufsetze macht es erscheinen als gäbe es dennoch einen direkter Weg der nur tatsäch- lich nicht gangbar sei. <…> |
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The difficulty is that we feel that we have said something about the nature of pain when we say that one person can't have another person's pain. Perhaps we shouldn't be inclined to say that we had anything physiological or even p[h|s]ychological but something metapsychological metaphysical. Something about the essence, nature, of pain as opposed to its causal connections to other phenomena. |
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Es scheint uns etwa als wäre es zwar nicht falsch sondern unsinnig zu sagen “ich fühle seine Schmerzen”, aber als wäre dies so infolge der Natur ड Ms-148,32v 14 des Schmerzes, der Person
etc..
Alswäre also jene Aussage letzten Endes doch eine Aussage über die Natur der Dinge. Wir sprechen also etwa von einer Asymmetrie unserer Ausdrucks- weise & fassen diese auf als ein [s|S]piegelbild des Wesens der Dinge. |
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Intangibility of impressions. (Anguish) Some we should <…> were more ¿tangible¿ than others. Seeing more tangible than a faint pain; & this more tangi- ble than a vague fear, longing etc. In what way are these intangi- ble experiences less easy to communicate tha to describe than the mo ‘simpler’ ones? In what way do we use the —phrase: “This experience is difficult to describe.” And can ˇit be even impossible to describe certain an experience<s>be ever ¿in- des¿? |
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des Was für einen Sinn hat es zu sagen
diese Erfahrung ist nicht beschreib- bar? Wir möchten sagen: sie ist zu com- plex, zu subtil. - |
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“Diese Erfahrung ist nicht mitteilbar, aber ich kenne sie,— weil ich sie habe.” ड Ms-148,33r 15 |
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“Es gibt die Erfahrung, & die Beschreibung der Erfahrung.—” Daher kann es nicht gleichgültig sein, ob der Andere die selbe Erfahrung hat,, wie ich, oder nicht;— & daher kann es muß es wenn ich mit mir selbst rede auf diese meine Erfahrung ankommen. “Es muß dabei eine entscheidende Rolle spielen daß ich diese Erfahrung kenne (während ich mit der des Andern nicht direkt vertraut bin).” |
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Kann man sagen: “[i|I]n dem das was ich über die Erfahrung des Andern sage, spielt seine Erfahrung (selbst) nicht hinein. In dem das was ich über meine Erfahrung sage spielt sie diese Erfahrung selbst hinein.”? “Ich spreche über meine Erfahrung, sozusagen, in ihrer Anwesenheit” //in ihrem Beisein//. |
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Wie wenn jemand sagen würde: “Es gibt nicht nur die Beschreibung des Tisches sondern auch den Tisch.” |
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“Es gibt nicht nur das Wort ‘Zahnschmerz’, es gibt auch such a thing as etwas wie den Zahnschmerz selbst.” //… es gibt auch Zahnschmerzen.”// ड Ms-148,33v 16 |
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Es scheint, daß, da ich etwa eine Erfahrung nicht beschreiben kann, sie aber habe, daß ich sie daher genauer kennen kann, als irgend ein Anderer. Aber was heißt, es die Erfahrung kennen, wenn es nicht heißt, sie beschreiben & nicht heißt, sie haben. Gibt es eine Kenntnis der Erfah- rung, die wir nicht mitteilen können? |
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Hat es Sinn zu sagen “ich kenne diese Erfahrung besser //genauer// als irgend ein Anderer sie kennen kann”?”. Gibt es Erfah- rungen die der Andere ebensogut kennen kann wie ich & solche, die er nicht so gut kennen kann?— Heißt das: er kann diese selbe ˇkomplizierte Erfahrung nicht haben?— Es heißt wohl: “Er kann sie haben, aber wir können nie nicht wissen, daß er gerade genau diese gehabt hat”. Z.B. <…> scheint es als könnten wir sagen: “Wir können in einem Sinn wissen daß er gerade diese [E|e]infärbige, glatte, [R|r]ote Fläche sieht, aber nicht, daß er genau dieses Flimmern sieht. Weil sich das genaue Gesichtsbild beim des Flimmerns nicht beschreiben läßt. |
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Es gibt ja auch den Fall, in dem wir ein Gesichts- bild genauer durch ein gemaltes Bild als durch ड Ms-148,34r 17 Worte
beschreiben können. |
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Wie ist es damit: “Man kann eine [f|F]igur genauer mit Hilfe von [m|M]aßzahlen als ohne diese be- schreiben”. |
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Aber die Erfahrung, die ich habe scheint im gewissen Sinne eine Beschreibung dieser Erfahrung, im gewissen Sinne,c zu ersetzen. “Sie ist ihre eigene Beschreibung”. |
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Vermischen wir hier nicht zwei Dinge: die Zusam- mengesetztheit der Erfahrung &, was man ihren ursprünglichen Geschmack Ton flavour nennen könnte? Ihre eigentliche natürliche Farbe |
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Es ist die Auffassung, daß von der ursprüng- lichen Erfahrung etwas nur ein Teil bei in der Mitteilung erhalten bleibt, & etwas anderes ˇvon ihr verloren geht. Nämlich eben ‘ihr timbre’, oder wie man es nennen möchte. Es kommt Einem hier so vor als könnte man, sozusa- gen nur die ˇfarblose Zeichnung vermitteln & der Andere setzte in sie seine Farben ein. Aber das ist natürlich (eine) Täuschung. |
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Aber können wir nicht wirklich sagen, wir hätten in dem Andern durch unsere Beschrei- bung ein Bild hervorgebracht aber wir können nicht wissen ob dieses Bild nun ड Ms-148,34v 18 genau das
gleiche ist, wie das unsere? Denken wir hier an den Gebrauch des Wortes gleich in ˇsolchen Sätze wie: “Diese Kreise sind dem Augenschein nach ganz gleich.” |
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Hierher gehört auch, daß wir gewöhnlich unser Gesichtsbild nicht als etwas in uns empfinden wie etwa einen Schmerz im Auge daß wir aber wenn wir philosophieren geneigt sind diesem Vergleich Bild gemaß zu denken. |
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“The ‘if’-sensation’”. Compare with the ‘table-sen- sation’. There is the question “Whats the table sensation like” & the answer is a picture of a table. In what sense is the ifsensation analogous to the tablesensation? Is there a description of this sensation & what do we call a description of it. Putting the gestures in- stead of the sensation means really just pr giving the nearest rough description there is of this the Experience |
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Example [“I have a peculiar feeling of pastness in my wrist”.] ड Ms-148,35r 19.
6) “We shall never know whether he meant thisor that”. [B|C] died after the training in that room. We say: “Perhaps he would have reakted like B when taken into the daylight. But we shall never know. α) We should say this question was decided if he arose from his grave & we then made the experiment with him. Or his ghost appeared to us in a spiritualist s'anse & told us that he has a certain experience. β) We dont accept any evidence. But what if we didn't accept the evidence in 5 either & said somet (something like) “We can't be sure that [it|he] is the identical man who was trained in the room”, or: “he is the identical man but we can't know whether he would have behaved like this in the past time when he was trained. 7) We introduce a ˇnew notation for the expression: “If [A|P] happens then always (as a rule) [B|Q] happens. P didnt happen this time & so Q didn't happen” We say instead: “If P had happened Q would<…> have happened”. E.g. “If the gunpowder is dry ˇunder these circumstances a spark of this strength explodes it. It wouldn't dry this time & under the same circumstances didn't explode” We say instead “If the gunpowder had been dry this time it would have exploded”. The point of this notation is that it nears the form of this preposition very much to the form: “The ¿gunpowder¿ ड Ms-148,35v 20. was dry this time so it
exploded”
I meanthe new ¿form¿ doesn't stress the fact that it did not explode but, we might say, points a vivid picture of it exploding this time. We could imagine a ˇtwo forms of expression in a picture language which was corresponding to the two kinds of notations in the word language. The second notation would consist in actually painting a picture of the explosion. The second notation will be particularly appropriate ˇe.g. if we wish to give a person a shock by making him vividly imagine what that which would have hapened, stressing only slightly that it hasn't didn't happened. Someone might say to us: “But are you sure that the second sentence means just what the first one means & not <…> just something similar or ˇthat & something else as well? (Moore) I should say: I'm talking of the case where it means just this, if it's used in & this seems to me an important case (which you ¿causede¿ by saying what you have said). But of course I don't say that it isn't used in other ways as well & then we'll have to talk about these other cases separately. Someone says —“lowering ones voice some ड Ms-148,36r 21 times means
⇆
⇆ that you
whish to drawspecial attention to what you now say • in other cases you lower your voice to show ⇄ • that what you say is less important than the rest⇄. We It must be clear that our examples are not preparations to the <…> analysis of the actual meaning of the expression so & so Aut (Niquod) but giving them effects that “analysis”. 11Hab Have we now shown that to say ˇin 5 “We can't know whether he would have behaved …” makes no sense? We should say the sentence to say this sentence under these circumstances ˇhas lost its the point which it would have had under other circs. but this doesnt mean that we can't give it another point. 10) We say “We don't can know whether this spark would have been sufficient to ignite that mixture; because we can't reproduce the exact mixture not having the exact ingredients or not having a balance to weigh them etc etc. But suppose we could reproduce all the circumstances & someone said “we can't know whether it would have exploded” as we can't know whether & being asked why he said because under these circumstances it would have exploded then.” This answer would set our head whirling. We should feel he wasn't playing the same game with that expression as we do. We should be ड Ms-148,36v 22.
inclined to say “This makes no sense!”And this means that we are at a loss not knowing what reasoning, what actions go with this expression. Moreover we believe that he made up a sentence analogous to sentences used in certain lang. games but not noticing that he took the point awayt. In which case do we say that a sentence has point? That comes to asking in which case do we call something a language game. I can only answer. Look at the family of language games that will show you whatever can be shown about the matter. 12) “We can never know what he really sees, for he has his own visual image & I have mine”. & we can't say |
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12) (The private visual image.) B is trained to describe his afterimage when he has looked say into a bright red light. He is made to look into the light, & then to shut his eyes & he is then asked “What do you see?”. This question before was put to him only if he looked at physical objects. We suppose he reacts by a description of what he sees with closed eyes.— But halt! This description of the training seems wrong for what if ड Ms-148,37r 23
) 148082
< <…> > Would I then also have said: “I reacted to the question by …” & not rather: “When I had clo closed my eyes I saw an image & described it”. If I say “I saw an image & described it I say this as opposed to the case where in which I described gave a description without seeing an image. (I might have lied or not.) Now we could ˇof course also distinguish these cases if B describes an afterimage. But we dont wish to distinguish them but we only ˇto consider now cases in which the mechanism of lying plays any part. For [I|i]f you say “I always know whether I am lying but not whether the other ma person is”, I say: in the case I'm considering I can't be said to know that I'm not lying, or let us say not saying the ˇuntruth, because the dilema saying the truth or the untruth is in this case unknown to me. Think of the fact Remember that when I'm asked “what do you see here” I don't always ask myself: “Now shall I say the truth or not something else?” If you say “but surely if you ˇin fact speak the truth then you did see some- thing & you saw what you said you saw” I answer: How can I know that I see what I say I see? Do I have a criterion one tha for the ¿colour¿ I see actually being red? ड Ms-148,37v 24. |
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13) ˇWe imagine that The expression “I can't see what you see” has been given sense by explaining it to mean: “I can't see what you see being in a different position relative to the object we are looking at”, or “… having not as good eyes as you”, or “… having found as in … that B sees something which we don't thought we look at the same Object. etc. I can't see your afterimage might be explained to mean I can't see what you see if I close my eyes meaning when you say you see a red circle I see a yellow one. 14) Identity of physical objects, of shapes, colours, dreams, toothache. 15) (The thing object we see) The physical Object & its appearance. Form of expression: different views of the same phys. object are different objects seen. We ask “What do you see” & he can either answer “a chair”, or „this” (& draw the particular view of the chair). So we are now inclined to say that each man sees a different object & one which no other person sees, for even if they look at the same chair from the same spot it may appear different to them & the objects before the other minds eye I can't look at. 16) (I can't know whether he sees anything ड Ms-148,38r 25 at all or
only behaves as I do when I seesomething.) There seems to be an undoubted asymetry in the use of the word “I to see” (& all words relating to personal experience). One can is inclined to state this in the way that “I know when I see something by just seeing it, without hearing what I say or observing the rest of my behaviour whereas I know that he sees & what he sees only by observing his behaviour, i.e. indirectly”. a) There is a mistake in this <…>: I know what I see because I see it”. What does it mean to know that. b) It is truet to say that my reason for saying that I see is not the observation of my behaviour. But this is a gramm.prop. c) It seems to be an imperfection that I can only know ---. But this is just the way we use the word ---.— Could we then … if we could? Certainly. |
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Does the person Should we say that the person… who has not learnt the language know<…>s wh that he sees red but can't express it?— Or should we say: “he knows what he sees but can't express it”?— So, besides seeing it, he also knows what he sees? Imagine we described a totally different experiment; say this, that I sting someone with a needle & observe wheter he cries out or not makes a sound or not. Then surely it would interest us if the subject <…> ड Ms-148,38v 26 whenever we often when we
stung him saw, say, a red [|c]ircle.
Andwe would distinguish the case when he cried out & saw a circle from the case when he cried out & didn't see one. This case is quite straightforward & there is no problem about it. seems to be nothing problematic in it. |
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If I say “I tell myself that I see red, I tell myself what I see” it seems that after having told myself I now know better what I see, am better acquainted with it, than before. (Now in a sense this may be so …) |
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“When he said asked me what colours I saw, I guessed what he meant wished wanted to know & told him.”<…> |
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“It is not enough to distinguish between the cases in which B or I sais that I see red & do see red & the case in which I say this but don't see red; but we must distinguish between the cases in which I say I see red, see red, say I see red & mean to describe what I see & the cases in which I don't mean this. ड Ms-148,39r 27 |
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Consider the case in which I dont say what I see in words but by pointing to a sample. Here again I distinguish now between the cases in which I ‘just react by pointing’ & the case in which I see & point. |
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Now suppose I asked: “¿how¿ do I know that I see & that I see red? “[i|I].e. how do I know that I do what you call seeing ˇ(& seeing red)?” For we use the word ‘seeing’ & ‘red’ between us. in a game we play with one another. |
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Don't you say: “We not In order to be a description of our personal experi- ence it ˇwhat we say must not just be the our reaction but ˇmust be justified”? by what I ¿see¿? But does the justification need another justifi- cation? |
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Nehmen wir Suppose, We play the game 2 & B tells calls out the word “red”. Suppose A now asks B: “do you only say ‘red’ or did you really see it?”. |
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“Surely there are two phenomena: one, just speaking, the other, seeing & speaking accordingly. Answer: Certainly we speak of these two cases but we shall here have so show how ड Ms-148,39v 28 these expressions are used; or, in otherwords, how they are taught. For the mere facts that we posess a picture of them does not help us as we must describe how in what way this picture is used. More especially as we are inclined to assure a use difference from the actual one. We have therefore to explain under what conditions we say: “I see ‘red’ but don't see red” or “I saw ‘red’ & see red”, or “I say <…> red said ‘red’ but didn't see red” etc. etc.. Imagine that saying red was often are followed by some agreable event. We found that the child enjoyed that event & often instead of ‘green’ said ‘red’. We would use this rea[k|c]tion to play another lang. game with the child. We would say “you cheat, its red” Now again we are dependent upon the subsequent reaction of the child. Such games are actually played with children: Telling a person the untruth & enjoying his surprise at finding out what really happened. |
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But couldn't we imagine some kind of perversity in a child which made it say red when it saw green & v& v& & at the ड Ms-148,40r 29 same time this not being discovered becauseit happened to see red ˇin these cases when we say green? But if here we talk of perversity we could might also assure that we all were perverse. For how are we or B even to find out that he is perverse? The idea is, that he finds out (& we do) when later on he lerns how the word ‘perverse’ is used & now then he remembers that he was that way all along. Imagine this case: The child looks at the lights: sais the name of then right colour to himself in an asside & then loud the wrong word. It chuckles while doing so. This is, one may say, a rudimentary form of cheating. One might even say: “This child is going to be a liar”. But if it had not said the asside but only imagined itself pointing to one colour on the chart & then said the wrong word,— was this cheating too? Can a child cheat like a banker without the knowledge of the banker? |
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“I can assure you that before when I said ‘I see red’ I saw black ड Ms-148,40v 30 |
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“He tells us his private experience, that experience which nobody but he knows anything about”. |
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“Surely his memory is worth more than our direkt criteria, as only he could know what he saw.” |
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<…> But let us see;— [w|W]e sometimes say ouside philosophy such things as “of course only he knows how he feels” or “I can't know what you feel”. Now how do we apply such a state- ment? Mostly it is an expression of helplessness like “I don't know what to do”. But this helplessness is not due to an unfortunate metaphysical <…> fact, ‘the privacy of personal ex- perience’, or it would worry us the always constantly. Our expression is comparable to this: “What's done can't be undone!”. |
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We also say ˇto the Doctor “Surely I must know whether I have pains or not!” How do we use this statement? |
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“Allright if we can't talk in this way about someone else I can certainly say of myself that I either saw red ड Ms-148,41r 31
<…> at that time or didn't had some other
experience”.
I maynot remember now, but at the time I saw one thing or the other!” This is like saying “one of these two pictures must have fitted”. And my answer is not that ˇperhaps neither of them fits but that I'm not yet clear about what ‘fitting’ in this case means. |
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Now is it the same case are these different cases: A blind man sees everything just as we do but he acts as a blind man does & on the other hand he sees nothing & acts as a blind man does. At first sight we should say: here we have obviously two clearly different cases athough we admit ˇthat we can't know which we have before us. I should say: You We obvious- ly use two different pictures which one we could describe like this: …. But we use both the pictures in such same a way that the two games ‘come to the same’. |
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By the way,— would you say that he surely certainly knew that he was blind if he was so? Why do you feel more reluctant about this statement? ड Ms-148,41v 32 |
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“Surely he knew that he saw red but he [k|c]ouldn't say so!”— Does that mean “Surely he saw knew that the [co|sa]w the colour which we call ‘red’ …” & if not— or would you say it means “he knew that he saw this colour” (pointing to a red pa<t>ch)”. But did he while he knew it point to this patch? |
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Use of: “He knows what colour he sees”. “I knew what colour I saw” etc. |
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“Nachdunkeln der Erinnerung” does this expression make sense & in what cases. And isn't ont the other hand the picture which we use quite clear in all cases? |
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The case of old people usually having getting memories of the time in which they learnt to speak & understand speech: a) They say or paint that such & such things have happened although other records always contradict them b) The memories agree with the records. [I|O]nly in this case shall we say that they remember …. |
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Suppose they paint the scenes they ड Ms-148,42r 33 say they remember & paint the facesvery dark;— shall we say that they saw them that dark or that the colour had become darker in their memo- ry? |
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How do we know what colour a person sees? By the sample he points to? And how do we know wheth what relation the sample is ˇmeant to have to the original? Now are we to say “we never know …”? Or had we better cut out these “we never know …” ˇout of our language & [k|c]onsider how as a matter of fact we are wont to use the word “to know”? |
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What if someone asked: “How do we I know that what I call ˇseeing red is ˇnot an entirely different experience every time?”? & that I am not deluded into thinking that it is the same or nearly the same?”? Here again the answer “I can't know & the subsequent removal of the question. |
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Is it ever true that when I call a colour ‘red’ I serve myself of memory?? make use of memory?? |
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To use the memory of what happened ड Ms-148,42v 34 when we were taught language is
allrightas long as we don't think that this memory teaches us something essentially private. |
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“A rod has one length or another how ever we find it out.” Here again the picture ) 148083 |
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“Though he [k|c]an't say what it is he sees while he is learning No 1, he'll tell us afterwards what he saw. We mix this case up with the one: “When his ¿gag¿ will have been removed he'll tell us what he saw”. |
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What does it mean ‘to tell someone what [we|one] sees’? Or (perhaps), ‘to show someone what one sees’? |
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When we say “he'll tell us what he saw we have an idea that then we'll know what he really saw in a direkt way (“at least if he isn't lying”) |
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“He is in a better position to say what he sees than we are.”— That depends.— |
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If we say “he'll tell us what he saw”, it is as though he would now make a ड Ms-148,43r 35 use of
language which we had never taughthim. |
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It is as if now whe we got an insight into something which before we had only seen from the outside. |
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Inside & outside! |
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“Our teaching training connects the word ‘red’ (or is meant to connect it) with a parti- cular impression of his (a private impression an impression in him). He then communicates this impression— indirectly, of course— through the medium of speech.” |
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Where is the our idea of “direct & indirect com- munication taken from? |
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How, if we said, ˇas we sometimes might be inclined: “We can only hope that this— indirect way of communication really succe[d|e]ds. |
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We ˇso long see the facts about the usage of our words crookedly as so long as we are still tempted ˇhere to talk of direct & indirect. |
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As long as you use the picture indirect- direct in this case you can't trust yourself ड Ms-148,43v 36 about
judging the grammatical situationrightly otherwise. |
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In telling what one sees something like turning one's inside out? And learning to say what one sees, learning to let others see inside us? |
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“We teach him to make us see what he sees”. He seems in an indirect way to show us the object which he sees, the object which is before his minds eye. “We can't look at it, it is in him.” |
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The idea of the private object of vision. Apearance, sensedatum. |
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The visual field. ([n|N]ot to be confused with visual space.) |
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Telling someone what one sees seems like showing him, if indirectly, the object which is before ones mind's eye. |
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The idea of the object before one's mind's eye is absolutely bound (firmly) tied up with the idea that of a comparisson of such objects in different persons which compared to which the comparison ड Ms-148,44r 37 really
used is ˇan indirect one. |
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Whence the idea of the privacy of sensedata? |
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But do you really wish to say that they are not private ( that one person can see the picture before the other persons eye?” |
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Surely ˇyou wouldn't think that telling someone what one sees is could be a more direct way of communicating than showing him by pointing to a sample! |
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“He'll tell us later what it was he saw” means that we'll get to know in a (compara- tively) direct ˇ& a sure way what he saw as opposed to the guesses we could make before. |
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We don't reallize that the answer he gives us now is only part of a game like No 1 only more complicated. ड Ms-148,44v 38 |
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We dont deny that he can remember a having dream<t> so & so before he was born. Denying this to us would be like denying that he can say he remembers having dreamt so & so before he was born. I.e. we don't deny that he can make this move but we say that the move alone or together with all the sensations feelings etc he might have while he is making it does not tell us what game it is a move of. to what game the move belongs. We might e.g. never try to connect up a statement of this sort with anything past (in an other sense). We might treat it as an interesting phenomenon & possibly connect it up with the persons ¿writing¿ in a Freudian way or on the other hand we may look for some phenomena in the brain of the embryo which might be called dreams etc. etc.. Or we may just say: “old people are liable to say such things” & leave it at that. |
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Suppose now someone remembered that the yesterday he called red ‘green’ & vice versa but that this didn't [p|a]ppear as he also saw green what today he sees red & vice versa. Now here is a case in which we might be inclined to say that we ड Ms-148,45r 39 learn from him today something aboutthe working of his mind yesterday, that yesterday we judged by the outside while today we are allowed to look ˇ<…> at the inside of what happened. It is as though we looked back but now got a glance at something that was closed to us covered up yester- day. |
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If I say what it is I see how do I compare what I say with what I see in order to know whether I say the truth? Lying about what I see, you might say, is knowing what I see & saying something else. Supposing I said it just consists of saying to myself ‘this is red’ & aloud ‘this is green’ |
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Compare lying & telling the truth in the case of telling what colour you see with the case of describing a picture which you saw or telling the right number of things you had to count. |
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Collating what you say & what you see. |
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Is there always a collating? |